carrie_luce (carrie_luce) wrote,

Doc Doesn't Get It.

In "Doc's Sunrise Rants," the good doctor has a few questions about my post on homeschooling. I will be delighted to help her understand what I said.  From her post:
Here's my dissection of a post I linked earlier - here is the original (the comments are worth a read). Block quotes are Carrie's.

Homeschoolers say they have many reasons for what they do, but it all boils down to one simple thing: Treason.
(fluffy monologue omitted - it didn't add to her argument, so she shouldn't mind my skipping it.)
Treason: (as per wikipedia) In law, treason is the crime of disloyalty to one's nation. A person who betrays the nation of their citizenship and/or renegs on an oath of loyalty and in some way willfully cooperates with an enemy, is considered to be a traitor. Oran's Dictionary of the Law (1983) defines treason as: "...[a]...citizen's actions to help a foreign government overthrow, make war against, or seriously injure the [parent nation]."

I'm sorry, I don't get the analogy. What I'm doing is legal. I'm raising and educating my own children - something parents have done for thousands of years prior to the advent of public education. I never took an "oath" to send my children to public school
My main point was that homeschooling harms the country by fragmenting the social identities of our children.  Public schools imbue the children passing through them with a set of values that emphasizes their place in society.  They learn how best to work with the State to support and strengthen it.  Homeschoolers values are at best out of synch and more often are even at odds with those same values - to the detriment of the country.  In the dangerous and competitive arena of world politics, that can put us at a distinct disadvantage to any country with a united front in its citizenship. 

As a side note, I pointed out that public schooling frees both parents for work, which improves the productivity of our country by adding workers to the job market without adding new consumers.  This boosts net output, giving us an edge that could be the difference in the continuing competitiveness of our country in the world market.  A homeschooler - even one who takes a second job - does not have the freedom to work to her full potential because there is no letup from the constant demands you get when you add teaching to the list of needs you are fulfilling yourself instead of delegating.

Both of these issues harm our country and make us more vulnerable to our enemies overseas.  This is why I call Homeschooling Treason.

Doc continues:
Although they say otherwise, it isn't because of "better academics" (which they tout through flawed research) or fear of violence (which is just as likely to occur at home as it is at school - and if they ever DO let their children out into the real world, they are exposing their children to other threats - just like the rest of us). Homeschoolers, quite simply put their own selfish biased agendas above the well being of the society and community that supports them.
No, it's not us homeschoolers saying it, it's common knowledge that homeschoolers do better than publicly schooled students on standardized tests. Research also states unequivocally that homeschoolers are better prepared, socially, than public schooled students, and have better self esteem.

Academic Statistics
More Statistics
And even more statistics

I challenge any reader to find an established body of research that disputes any of these statistics. Or to prove that the above research is "flawed"
Common knowledge is wrong.  It is based on exactly these flawed statistics - I'm glad she brought them up!  One set, when you dig a little, even admits it's flawed!

The problem with these statistics is that they do NOT take a representational sample of homeschoolers.  The tests are all conducted by biased groups who stand to gain from an increase in homeschooling, so there is no one to say "hey, we aren't exactly comparing apples to apples here, what can we do to fix this".  The homeschoolers that are represented here are those who go out of their way to have their children tested *at their center* AND then the parents get to tell the administrators whether they want their children's scores to be included in the research. The people who go to these centers are overwhelmingly middle class white and protestant - a group that tests well in itself.  The ones who agree to have their children's scores included are highly confident in a good outcome of the test in the first place.  The test didn't explicitly trawl the members of mensa, but they might as well have.

Contrast this with the national average, which includes ALL public schooled students - the developmentally disabled, immigrants with little understanding of the language, the poor, the malnourished, the abused and even the criminal - these tests are administered in "alternative" schools that teach the kids expelled from mainstream schools.  This is a level of inclusion that homeschoolers would NEVER tolerate.

Given this disparity, is there any wonder that the "statistics" favor homeschoolers?

As for "the real world" - please define that for me. Is being cooped up in a room, with people who are exactly your age, being commanded and directed by a virtual stranger (and not a parent if you are a child) a model of what in the "real world"? The notion that I should send my children to public school in order to expose them to violence is just well, lunacy. I am a parent. My job is to protect my children. I need examples of how my homeschooling doesn't support my local community? My community doesn't support me - I pay taxes and perform many different kinds of volunteer jobs - as do my children. I also need to know how sending your children to public school supports the community. I'm still paying for public school, through my property taxes. Looks like I'm the one supporting the public school parents. Especially in my depressed community, where a majority of residents receive public aid and do not pay any taxes at all!
the funny thing about this diatribe is it completely misses my argument.  I included the phrase "real world" once - to describe a subset of homeschoolers who say they homeschool out of fear of violence.  I pointed out that any time they leave their homes, they are exposed to violence, so this was not a real reason for homeschooling.  So, I am NOT saying that homeschoolers are not in the real world, I am NOT claiming that school is the real world and I am NOT using the "get the kids into the real world" argument in my post.  Way to attack phantoms there Doc!


(snip - my own words snipped here, for some semblance of brevity)
Again, I don't get it. I tutor in the public schools twice a week. This is my observation: kids running around unsupervised, smacking each other with backpacks, public displays of sexual behavior, poor social skills, - this is the molding of society? That's just plain scary. Really. When did we become this nanny nation where the public school forms our children's identity? Are the views of some stranger with an unknown agenda more important than my own? Why not just turn children over to the gov't to raise at birth? Why involve parents at all? Parents don't need to decide if their children are injected with possibly harmful chemicals, no, the public school should decide that. Mmm, okay.
In the first part of this paragraph, I agree with Doc, the kids should be better supervised in schools and their social identity should be more explicitly drilled.  This is NOT an argument against schooling, it's an argument against POOR schooling.

The second part gets to the heart of the matter.  Doc believes that one person in a society is more important than that society itself.  I do not.  I believe that a society with a strong identity is a strong society - better able to support and defend itself and in doing so, the individuals that make it up.  This is why societies exist.  Without them, man would have accomplished nothing.  What one man built, another would take and still another would destroy.  It's the agreement of the people in a society to support that society that allows us to concentrate on the development of civilization.  Disharmony means that the people are no longer able to do this.  They are looking out for themselves to the detriment of their neighbor.  This results in a net loss to the people. 

Hmmm, parents shouldn't parent, they should be out in the world being productive. Raising children isn't productive. You know, this is probably the most incredibly ignorant paragraph I've ever read in my entire life. I'm simply speechless. When the gov't starts paying for a specialized formal upper level education for every citizen, then they can raise my kids. I guess the only thing Carrie does is blog.
Parents shouldn't have to teach their children.  They have better things to do.  They are not giving up being parents any more than Dad does when he goes to work in a family with only one income.  To suggest otherwise is an insult to fathers and single parents everywhere.

I would not be adverse to free college.  We wouldn't be the first country that did it, and we would probably be better off for it too!

Um, I don't homeschool 24 hours a day. In fact, by unschooling, I hardly homeschool at all. I've been through school. Lots of it. It's my CHILDREN who are homeschooling. Somehow I manage to run a medium sized dairy, raise and train performance horses, edit college textbooks, guest lecture at universities all over the world, deliver meals on wheels, be a senior advocate, tutor, play in a old-people rock and roll band, receive chemotherapy every month, entertain the masses here on my blog, and raise my children. I do all these things equally well. I think society benefits more than it pays me back. Amazingly enough, all the homeschooling parents I know are involved in about this many activities. There's more to life than a paycheck, dear. That's what society is really about.
I covered that in my article on unschooling - which Doc didn't try to refute :)

Thanks Doc for fixing my spelling errors - I didn't see the spell check on my blog editor, but I've found it now and will try to run it from now on!


Wow!  spell check doesn't like homeschoolers either!

Tags: against homeschooling, argument against homeschooling, arguments against homeschooling, homeschooling, school, unschool, unschooling
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